I am a new J/30 owner that bought a 'fixer upper' last year and am in the process of a completely restoration of this boat. During this refit, I've probably opened up a J/30 as much or more than anyone. I've talked extensively about this topic on the J/30 site in the following thread:
"Dewatering Aft Bilge - Need Advice"
http://j30.us/ubb/Forum10/HTML/000510.html
I have also posted a simple web site with pictures of the J/30's guts, which I would have liked to have had before opening things up, which can be found here:
http://www.6degrees.com/j30/underthefloor
My boat has much more extensive problems than your own. The core below the waterline on the right side forward of the engine intake is wet. Everywhere around the keelsump is wet as well. Its a pretty daunting amount of work, but work I'm comfortable with because I've worked in yards and done similar repairs on J/Boats before.
If you've got water on the starboard aft side, you've probably got the classic leak around the engine intake that many cored boats get. Its a shame when this leaks for years, as it really adds up and spreads with balsa core. The J/30 is pretty over-built and a strong boat, but a broad soaked core can mean a substantial delamination, which should be repaired, especially if you are sailing offshore.
Because of the location of your problem the repairs have to be made from the outside. (I'm doing much of my recoring from the inside since I don't have a shed that will let me flip the boat belly up and working overhead with epoxy is a huge pain). This is a pretty substantial job and should be done by someone that really knows what they are doing and has lots of recoring experience.
There are lots of opinions about how to repair or dry wet core and I don't really want to set of a SA-bruhaha over what will work on your boat, but I'll gladly tell you about my experience.
Firstly, I did some core sampling to figure out what kind of trouble the boat was in. The moisture in the worst spots was reading nearly 100% using my GE Aquant meter (which rocks by the way). In these spots the core was similar to a wet sponge - completely delaminated and devoid of strength. In the areas that read 50% and less, the core was still firm, presumably because it had spent less time wet, but still somewhat crushable (which defeats its real purpose in the laminate).
I attempted some drying to see if these moist areas could be remediated without getting ugly. Here's what I tried and how it worked:
1) Drill holes 2" on center in a grid (from inside) over all wet spots. Let sit for 2 weeks in summer heat.
- No effect
2) Add continuous dehumidifier for 2 weeks.
- Still no effect
3) Setup vacuum pump to draw dry air in and moisture out.
- Minimal impact, which disappeared once the wet core around it re-soaked the adjacent core.
4) Add heat lamps to dry localized areas
- Small impact (perhaps 15% improvement), which also disappeared once the wet core around it re-soaked the adjacent core.
5) Peel inner laminate in spots
- Good drying, but only in peeled areas. The core was still weakened.
6) Let sit drilled over Vermont winter
- no effect
Things I learned from this exercise:
- Passive drying is not effective if the hull is significantly wet. The folks at TPI say if its wet with salty water, it will never dry passively. Possibly true for fresh water too. This is apparently true based on my testing.
- You can't dry a 'spot' with adjacent wet spots. You've got to dry things to the margin of the wetness.
- If its *very* wet, its not structural anymore.
- Water runs from the source downhill. On my boat, the worst damage was around the keel trunk, which is the worst place for this problem.
- If you dry balsa that has been very wet, it is not necessarily strong enough for its intended purpose afterward. This stuff really rots (its stinky when you open up a soaked spot).
Anyway, this is a long way of saying that you should take this problem seriously. If the problem is localized, its possible that you might be able to get a professional repair at a cost that doesn't negate the overall value of the boat. I'd get a good yard or someone like Waterline/TPI to give you a quote to fix this. I can't really tell from your post how bad it is, and I'm not going to imply that my assessment is a fraction as good as the good folks at TPI/Waterline.
You might be able to get a ballpark estimate from someone on this work and deduct these costs (or fraction of these costs) from the sale price.
While I'm actually enjoying parts of this refit, its a lot of work! I haven't been able to take as much time as I'd hoped from my business or family, so my time-line is stretching out. If you are feeling adventuresome, be careful. You'll want to make your assessment based on facts, not intuitions or feelings. You've made an investment in a survey. If you pass, its a bummer to lose that money, but it shouldn't impact your go/no go decision. I flew to Chicago to see a J/35 that looked like a great deal and was told by the dealer that it was it 'good' shape. It was soaking wet everywhere under the waterline and the decks were actually dripping wet. (I was displeased and learned that day that its the broker's job to sell the boat, not tell you about its problems) So I know what its like to drop the cost of a survey on a crappy boat (the tickets and car were a little less than $500).
Assess the following:
- how much risk can you take?
- can you get a quote to repair it?
- will the seller adjust sufficiently?
- is your final price consistent with the common selling price of these boats?
- can you give up the rest of the season?
In my case, my beater had some great features that made the cut-rate price irresistible:
- new sails! (built at the loft I used to work at in college no less)
- trailer
- new (never mounted) rudder (another J/Boat problem that's stupid expensive to fix)
- excellent rigging and new hardware
- excellent mechanical shape
- fitted canvas cover
Were it not for these tasty advantages, I would have passed without batting an eyelash. I'm disappointed that it probably won't go in this year - but I'm very fortunate to have a good friend with a J/24, so I've done lots of racing and even some sailing with my kids. Without this, I'd be bumming.
Also, as far as your decks go, that's an order of magnitude simpler to repair. I've completely fixed every spot of coring in my decks and this repair is easy to do. Don't be tempted to make this repair from below. Gravity will punish you for your insolence! The deck repairs should be done from the top, and then followed with a nice new Awlgrip finish w/ their non-skid (not 'walnut shells' or other stupid table scraps as I've heard other people suggest). We pimped my friend's J/24 decks like this and they are 100% awesome. Better in my opinion than molded non-skid and durable as hell. Also, brushing awlgrip on decks works fine - that product is miraculous if you stick to thin coats.
Finally, maybe someone will tell you that you don't need to repair this. That's possible - I'm not TPI, so my opinion is just a bunch of talk on some level. If you go this way, at least stop the damage from worsening. Maybe you can seal up from the summer and do it this winter... again, I'd get a pro onsite to check it out.
Good luck. I love J/Boats, even if their balsa core boats of this era are very often badly troubled. They're not the best at anything, but they do just about everything well. The J/30 is (in my opinion) an excellent combination of performance and family-friendly comfort at an excellent used price. There are not many 30 ft boats with standing headroom, 6 bunks, diesel, a real head and galley that PHRF faster than 138. Its not an Annapolis 30, but I'd argue that it paved the way for this class of boats. (let the flames begin J/Haters... ![J/30 pity party otherwise known as "how wet is too wet?!" (1)](data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAAAAACH5BAEKAAEALAAAAAABAAEAAAICTAEAOw== "J/30 pity party otherwise known as \"how wet is too wet?!" (1)")
)
If you decide to skip this boat, I'm sure our fellow anarchists would love to weigh in on their favorite boats of this general class. (let 'er rip, I'm curious) (Though I still think the J/30 stands apart from the others)
Here's what I evaluated:
Beneteau 305/310
C&C 29, 33, 34
C&C 35 (I actually think the MkI of this boat is one of the best deals going)
J/29
Olson 30
Pearson Flyer
S2 10.3
Santana30
Santana30/30
Soverel30/33
Tartan 10
Regards,
Rich
#294
teresa said:
So, after all the sturm und drang of this saga, and the two informative threads keeping me maniacally checking for replies...here is where I stand.
I went up to survey the j/30 on which I have an accepted offer on today, (pending satisfactory survey) and, unfortunately,it was anything but satisfactory.Obviously, these are very old boats, and I was certainly expecting typical moisture problems. But, in short, the transom needs to be recored at least up to the water line, the aft quarter of the hull on the starboard side appears to need the same. The co*ckpit under the winches on both sides are wet, both chainplates are wet, but, other than that, and some typical things....she's GREAT! :-(
DBows-feel free to chime in here if I've missed anything.
It's a late model- 1985, hull #526
So, the question is...is it worth it to go here at all? If so, at what price? Anyone with firsthand experience of this kind of nightmare, please share.
I am one extremely unhappy camper. I need some hand holding and advice here....
PS-DBows, you are amazing, David Levine...as ALWAYS...and a new entry into the field...big powerplay by the redhead. You guys are remarkable. Thank you.
Teresa
